Curse

vandevere · Jul 13, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Ethics and etiquette can be particularly argumentative topics, so you are being warned now. Respect your fellow posters and be constructive, or I'll send wild turkeys after you.

Guru has seen a few threads on problems like scamming, duping, etc., so I'd like to try and bring those problems all under one umbrella: the issue of ethics and etiquette in gaming.

I know you have all seen a massive range of playstyles and how players treat each other. I personally feel like there is usually a correlation between RL personality (even on the subconscious level) and in-game personality. I think that people who act like 12 year old twats in game probably are griefers in RL, too. I also think people who take their time to selflessly help others are the type of people that would do that for someone in RL.

As for ethics and etiquette - I have a few questions/scenarios to give you a visual of what I'm getting at. You don't need to fit it out - it isn't a questionnaire... just examples of things to consider.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?No. There isn't
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).Probably. We all make mistakes like that sometimes.
- Do some players "just have it coming?" Never
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?There is always the idea of Human Dignity.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?It's completely unacceptable...
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking). Being rather new to the game, I'm not entirely sure what those are...

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)Nope
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?I pay generously if they've helped me to get where I want to go
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything? Never. I always stay until the-sometimes-bitter end.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?No
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?Always
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?Immature

I know these are a lot of questions - but these are just topics of discussion that fall under the ethics/etiquette umbrella. The reason I made this thread is because I sometimes feel like people are just unbelievable. I'd have to say that a LOT of the lack of maturity and moral standing comes from the younger players, though (sorry for the stereotype, but it is kinda true...). There are also a large number of people who are old enough that should know better, but are just as undesirable, too. It just baffles me how selfish, arrogant, rude, malicious or snake-like some people are.

So what do we "owe" to the other people in this game? What immature or asshole-ish things grind your nerves that other people do?

I'm a firm believer in the Do Unto Others Principle. So, I always treat players with dignity and respect.

upier · Jul 13, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
This question is misleading.
The word "scam" implies that the action is something that is against the Rules of Conduct - and based on that - no.
If the question on the other hand is asking about actions that aren't against the rules - then they aren't against the rules. Meaning they are allowed. So - yes.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
One is against the rules - the other isn't.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
If it's against the rules - then no, if it isn't - then yes.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
I must respect their rights.
I do not need to respect them.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
If it's not against the rules - who cares what it is.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
They are against the rules.
Thus not acceptable.

- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
It is against the rules.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
Doing something for a tip means I am NOT obligated to give anything.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
I don't think that is against the rules.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Leeching is supposedly against the rules.
Hello Dwight!

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Where in the rules is that?

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
If it's against the rules - it's against the rules.
If it's not - it's not.

I like some people.
And based on that - my actions towards them might be more favorable then what I am required to do (or not to do).

Doctor of Rocks · Jul 13, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared? No, there really isn't.
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth). For the most part no, but depends on what "significantly" means.
- Do some players "just have it coming?" I'm sure some do, but it shouldn't be justification.
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect? Yes.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds) Nope.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold? It depends on the runner. A nice runner with a good attitude will net a tip greater than the standard amount. A rude runner will net a thank you and couple hundred gold.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything? Generally, no, unless the entire group is annoying me, in which case I let them know and then leave.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn? Never
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG? GG after every match. Win or lose.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature? Depends, I have seen tasteful trash talking, and have seen the immature trash talking. The former I accept and participate it, the latter I can't stand.

**cosyfiep** · Jul 13, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

I treat others ingame as I wish everyone treated me---with respect and manners....its what I expect of all people ---INCLUDING kids and internet folks...
I see no reason to act differently just because you are on a computer

.....

lutz · Jul 13, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
Yes.
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes. Always take advantage. Unless you know them.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Yes.
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Depends who they are.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Depends who they are.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
No.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
I actually just never tip.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Yes. If they are failing at simple tasks, I call them failures and leave.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
PvE yes.
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
I do say GG.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
No. Unless you really dislike them. Then it's necessary.

Clarissa F · Jul 13, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Do I feel responsible to uphold ethics in the game? no.

The best thing you can do is lead by example. play ethical and with etiquette, and don't worry about what others are saying. Know that it's a game,detached from RL. I am sure there are some people who, if it weren't for the a$$-pounding they would get IRL, would act that way IRL. We have a culture that encourages people to "say what they feel"(thanks, hippies),and as a result, people say dumb things that, if they stepped back and thought about it, wouldn't say.

Etiquette hasn't been encouraged in the real world for decades. Why should in-game etiquette be any different?

Live by example, stick to your own values, and you will do more good than trying to be an enforcer of fairness and manners. We follow our heroes because they lead the way, not because they tell us what way to take.

Elder III · Jul 13, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared? NO
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).YES - although I personally try to give new players more leeway in that regard, aka help them out with some free advice etc...
- Do some players "just have it coming?" If I've not met them before than NO - some that I've met beforehand deserve all the grief they get (thank Anet for the Ignore button!!!)
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect? YES
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature? NEVER
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking) Buying Gold is against the rules - the others are fine as far as I'm concerned.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds) Only in Trade Chat
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold? I tip the going rate or more if they were extra nice or extra fast.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything? NO
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn? H*ll NO
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG? YES
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature? If it's good spirited joking around between guildies or friends it's fun for all - but in most cases it is not acceptable.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 13, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
if you profit from it and do it without breaking any rules sure
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
idk. but i do know there's nothing wrong with buying something way under price or selling way over. if both the buyer and seller are happy with the deal its a fair price.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
wat
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
people don't owe other people anything
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
not sure what you mean by in the spirit of the game. but its perfectly acceptable to attempt to belittle other in any situation. if they are offended thats their own issue.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
in both the cases you mentioned yes - they're both pve. if you were ever behind this games AI i dont think either of those things will help you "get ahead".

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
the answer to all those questions is yes, if i feel it is in my best interest.

Smile Like Umean It · Jul 13, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

No, it means this:

Do you feel like you should act in a "good" way to other people. Is it your duty as an "ethical" human being to do so?

Hope that clears it up.

Absolutely not. I do what I do because it is who I am. Sure there's a general rule of what's good and what's not but ultimately it is up to me on how I act. The same way I answer questions in the newbie areas is the same way that I will use the best of my abilities to shameface you if I think you've crossed the line with me. Will I apologize for it? No, because it's who I am.

My basic thinking: everyone, including each individual on this forum, has a basic level of respect from me. It is what you do in life, your actions, that determines whether that respect disappears or increases tenfold.

Steps_Descending · Jul 13, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

image : normla person + anonimity + audience = total RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOtard

QFT You have to be strong to fight the taint of the internets

EDIT : hehehe forgot the Red Engine Gored effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
I'm polite, if not warm, with any stranger pm-ing or talking to me, only exceptions are seriously immature (see : UR MOM jokes), and outright obnoxious people. Then again I am rarely rude, just unpolite, cold and I won't restrain the occasional indirect attack against him.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Never without saying something, only exception might be if everyone left is not loaded and only one is categorized as a jerk (see the point above)

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
thank you : yes. GG : no, I alway feel a sarcasm feeling with gg, so I use gj or complete sentences.

By the way, what is considered a decend tip for a high-end run (late game mission, dungeon)? Mine generally revolve around 500g for easy run (crystal desert, beacon-LA if I happen to take one) and 1k for high-end one.

Thizzle · Jul 13, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
You shouldn't scam, but getting a good deal is a different story.
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance
and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
You can usually tell when it's gotten to that point.
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
If you show me respect then I'll show you respect.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
It's not acceptable at all. I can't stand when someone try's to be cool and /rank you.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
Yes. In all reality are they getting ahead? You can't buy skill with gold. The most you'll be able to do is buy runs, armor, and titles. You can get max armor with about 10k which has the same exact attributes as 75k or Obsidian.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
I do in trade chat.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
If someone takes the time do it for free I always say thanks and tip them at least a quarter or half of the run at least. Let's say a run to Sanctum Cay is 1-2k and someone runs me to ToA for free then I will tip them 250-500g depending on my mood.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
I usually say bye, but if I'm angry I will.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Not usually, but AB is the only thing even worth trying to leech and you can get faction much quicker other ways.
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
How does please, thank you, and GG even go together? I say thank you if it's a trade and in PvP I might say GG if the match was good.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Do what you want, but I personally never trash talk.

Parson Brown · Jul 14, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes, a big difference. If someone offers an item for a price, one must assume they are happy with that price.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
As far as being scammed? No

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Yes. If not "respect", at least common courtesy

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Immature

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
In GW I don't see a problem unless what someone does DIRECTLY affects me. Someone else's drunk title changes my game in no way, so what do I care how you got it? Your gear changes my game in no way (because max is easy for all to get) so I don't care if you ebayed your Obby.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No, never

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
Running for tips is just that. So how can you complain about the size of tips. Myself, I rarely accept runs unless I'm more interested in seeing the person actually do the run.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Nope, but I also rarely Pug.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
No

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Of course

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
I find it only acceptable among friends who know that it is good-natured.

naughteblonde · Jul 14, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No. Never. Why would you ever want to?

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Mmm... I have bought low and sold higher before but always made sure my trade partner knew exactly what was going on so I'd say if ignorance is involved, perhaps its a bit...off. Usually if I see something too low or high I'll give the player a nudge, but I don't think its in the range of scamming.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
No. Nobody deserves in any way to be treated badly.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
I've never found it particularly difficult to be polite, respectful, or even friendly, and fewer people will be downright rude in return. Makes for a nicer environment.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Immature. Doing it via the net is no more acceptable than doing it to random people on the street.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
Im not against Texmod for something like adding a 'kick me' sign to Rurick's cape but definately against gold buying and botting.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
Trade spam in local bugs me so I wouldn't subject anyone to it. If you've got something you want to sell/buy trade is the best place for buyers/sellers to see it anyway as a lot turn off local to avoid the recruitment spam.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
Never actually been run anywhere other than the docks but if a player is providing a service I'd want to tip them well.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
No, the majority of the time I H/H so nobody has to be subjected to things like me fleeing urgently to the loo for a 1/2hr, they don't complain as much.

When I do PUG for harder missions I'm usually the one who sticks with the group even after 4 more players have ragequit.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
No, thats just rude. I can earn my PVE titles without messing with someone else's day.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Usually. Takes seconds to type and conveys that I appreciate their time either trading or in a PUG.

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Its immature IMO and one of the main reasons I've avoided PvP after getting a chatbar full for daring to try to learn how to. Theres a person on the end of those pixels and a torrent of typed abuse doesn't make you look good at all.

Bryant Again · Jul 14, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

Depends on the definition of "scam": In a recent (and closed) thread, many argued that it was "totally fine" to buy an underpriced item, or to take advantage of one's mistakes, others thought it totally wrong.

I go with the latter action, but I don't believe anything to be truly "wrong". It's just how you want to be, and how you want to influence the other player's experience. Now, do I think it selfish to benefit from someone's lack of knowledge or mistake? Definitely, but that's not the point of this thread.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

Big time, although both rely on an ignorance of sorts.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"

If they don't ever learn, then yes.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

If they show it to me. But I always treat people with respect at first glance.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

Meh, it always depends, a lot on the individual themselves and how they're being belittled.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

Depends on what it is that's "getting you ahead". If it's the previously above we're talking about, /shrug. They don't give any benefit. But if it's dealing with ones that are tied to PvE skills, then no it's not acceptable or fair.

- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

Nope.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

Nope. When you've worked in the food industry for numerous years, you begin to understand how much meaning weighs in the almighty tip.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

Never, because I've been there.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

Nope.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

Yeup, but it's usually "good game".

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

It's usually hard to tell from text, and it's all in the context. I mean I trash talk with my friends all the time.

Taurucis · Jul 14, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

1) No. Scamming is pretty much the same as stealing, only you're throwing lies into the mix.
2) It depends on the situation - I guess it's both people's fault. Let's say I sell a "rare Moa Egg" to some new player fresh out of Pre-searing for the only 1k he has. Some people could say that I scammed him, because a Moa Egg can be gotten for pretty much nothing. Others could say that it's the newbie's fault for not asking more about the egg. I'd think that both of us would be at fault, because I shouldn't take advantage of newbies and the newbie shouldn't rush headlong into things that he/she doesn't know about.
3) Yes. If you call me an idiot, say that I should just quit GW and jump off a bridge, and grief me over and over, when you get hit with hardship I'm going to laugh at you and tell you that you had it coming.
4) It's immature. Look at all this "Kurzick > Luxon and Luxon > Kurzick" crap that flies around in Alliance Battles. It's meaningless. It's just like red team or blue team in Random Arena... do you go around RAs saying "hey everyone in red team is a noob! blue team forever!" on a daily basis? No. Because you just might be red team next match. Same thing for Alliance Battles - your guild might go Luxon after you spammed the AB chat with "Die, Luxon dogs! Glory to the Kurzicks!" for an hour.

This goes especially for GvG/HA. There's too much team spirit in there... when you lose it's always "go back to pve scrubs" after the match, it's always rude messages, rankspikes... If your football team just beat another football team you'd probably get punished if you called the losing team pathetic or other insults.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

1) Not usually, but the automatic message suppressor seems to think that I'm spamming (I type very fast)
2) It depends on how good/well behaved the runner is. Another deciding factor is my mood for that day. But I always make sure that I say "thanks for the run" once it's over.
3) Only when I have to. I once got landed in a FoW group with this bunch of complete morons. They harrassed me nonstop for about an hour, and when we got to the Forge I just left. But most of my ragequitting is in Alliance Battles, when the team does really badly. Then I hurl insults at them and leave.
4) No, if I'm not going to actually play or chat on Guild Wars I'll usually log off.
5) I see "please" and "thank you" as essential, online and offline... but GG depends on whether my team wins or not, and how immature the other team is.
6) Not always. Sometimes the target deserves it. And when I see someone begging to be verbally abused, I'm not holding back.

Nessar · Jul 14, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
Not really, but if the chance is there, I probably won't take it

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
I'll tell them it's worth more then they are advertising. But if it's something I want, I'll buy it tbh.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Honestly, yes
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
I think so, unless they start acting like a complete asshole right when you meet them
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
I find it immature, but I can't say I haven't done it myself.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
People can do whatever they want to do to earn their pixels in a game, I really don't care.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
Never
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
I never tip unless the runner is a friend or it's his first time and did well
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
I'll leave if we are failing, if not then I stay. At the end of it I just leave the party without saying a word, or maybe ty & gg
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Nope
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
GG if it was a tough pvp match, otherwise...no
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Well, I don't think it's necessary, but me and friends trash talk eachother all the time, so...Also, I find it immature if someone is dissing someone else for no reason

fireflyry · Jul 14, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Interesting thread.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

No.

In saying there is obviously a place and time where this is vastly more effective eg.Ascalon.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

Imo the two are one in the same.The only reason scamming exists is due to
player ignorance.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"

Nope.

Admittedly some players are vastly less experienced but thats not a justification for them being ripped off.I had a guild member recently laughing about how he made a lot of profit in starter areas selling starter greens to new players for way more than they were worth.

Kicked.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

You get back what you give and being respectful not only makes the game more enjoyable but improves the community as a whole.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

Personal choice.I don't find it acceptable but this is a non-subscription game that has a lot of kids running around so to some degree I have come to expect it in GW especially in PvP.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

Again it's personal choice.

The trend is pretty obvious really.I find younger players usually go the easy route as they just want reward with minimal effort where as the mature or older players prefer the satisfaction of attaining a reward after working for it.

I don't have an issue with either.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

No.

I rarely trade and I post every 1-2 minutes when recruiting.I think people have become desensitized to spam messaging to the point where a message that is'nt spammed garners a better response.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

My guild has several "pro" runners in it and they don't ask for a penny.If I was to use a runner outside of my guild I would pay whatever they were asking.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

I always say thanks and wish players good luck at quest completion

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

No.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

Yes.

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

It's not necessary and yes it generally is immature.To me the more important issue is that given the medium it is to be expected.Other MMO's don't suffer this but they tend to subscription based in my experience.

beregond · Jul 14, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared? Never
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth). No
- Do some players "just have it coming?" No
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect? People should make an effort to be respectful to each other.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature? immature
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking) Unacceptable. Maybe cartography help at most when your at like 99% and cannot find any more. But gold buying is bad

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)No, it annoys me, so I don't try to annoy others that way.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold? Nope
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything? No. If I do leave, I give them a good reason past calling them "noobs".
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn? Absolutely not!
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG? Yes
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature? Depends on what your concidering "trashtalk" to be. I think everyone cussing every other word is completely immature, but there is some mild trash talk that I have no problem with.

fenix · Jul 14, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

2+3=cats.

Do you feel responsible to others to uphold ethics and etiquette in game?

No, never.

Time for MY ethics, keke;

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

Not really, scamming is a pretty low act. Then again, it's really the fault of the person for not realising. Just like the Nigerian email scam.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

Huge difference. I would not have the money I have now if I was completely honest in trading...you have to make the most of every situation, so buying an item for half price from a person who is HAPPY to sell it for that much, is fine.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"

Some do yes. The ones who ebay their gold, trash talk for having FoW and Torment, and then get heaps scammed off them deserved it all. Same goes for all things I think, karma is important.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

Not at all. Until someone earns my respect, in my eyes you are just another person, so don't expect any favours.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

A mix of the two. Trash talk has existed on the internet for ages, and is always going to exist. Arkantos' picture summarises it pretty well.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking).

I don't care about buying gold or macroing drinking (although, Gaile said the latter was something Anet can look past), so really, it's not whether it's acceptable and fair, it's whether people care enough to get it stopped.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

Never. In fact, I'm one of the least-spamming sellers there is. Sometimes I'll forget I'm selling and go for 5-10 minutes without a new message.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

I'm the kind of guy who pays huge tips, and often gets shocked responses. I once paid a guy 10k for a run he did (for tips) because he did it fast and I felt charitable. Most times I pay 2-5k, regardless of what it was. It's nice to see the reactions "omg are you serious? thanks so much!!"

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

Have to admit, I do this often. If I'm in a pug, and the players have less than 8 braincells amongst them, I will often just pz out. I'm not going to waste my time with idiots, when I could do it myself.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

Never one to leech, I don't see the point.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

Please and thank you I say quite often when trading. I only GG when it was deserved, which isn't very often. I find that I am 'gg'ing paired with trash talk these days (ie, gg you assholes)

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

Not necessary, but in no means immature. Sometimes it is well deserved, like when you play against QuCo and they trash talk you, even though their build is a massive gimmick and they're horrible players.

Kanyatta · Jul 14, 2008, 05:20 AM // 05:20

I guess I really don't feel responsible if I do something over the internets, especially since it will never affect another person in real life, unless you are seriously psychologically damaged, and probably shouldn't be playing video games anyway, or if you're a MySpace wh0re that takes everything to seriously, which you also shouldn't be playing video games.

But at the same time, I also realize it's just a game on my part as well. If I get a run for tips (which I haven't in ages), I'll tip well, because what am I outing myself? A few virtual Platinum, which I can easily gain back after doing an afk AT. I've leeched in the past, before there were consequences, like, I'd start a Fort Aspenwood, then go have lunch or something. If I'm at the computer, I play though.

When I trade, I always send a quick "thx", because again, what am I really outing myself? A few keystrokes and 0.8 seconds? When I play, I usually send a GG, I mean seriously, what else is there "BG! BAD GAME BITCHEZZZZ!" The only time I don't send a GG is if someone is running something incredibly lame and they know it themselves (i.e. bspike, gothspike, etc.), but then, I just keep my mouth shut, they won't know the difference.

If I'm in a PUG (which it has been a long time since I've done that), I'm rather blunt with people. If someone has a bad build, I point it out, although in the least asshole-ish way possible. I don't lie and tell someone their a good player when they really aren't, because what are you solving? By sugar-coating and false motivation you are only hurting the game. No one is going to learn if they don't realize they're doing stuff wrong, and I really hope that everyone I play with is the same to me. I'd like to get better as much as I can, so seriously, tell me if I'm screwing up, because it's the only way I'll learn.